yes the heater is amusing. And that's about all. It's like trying to boil water with a cigarette lighter. The 1958 parts Rover had a HUGE unit that started in the fender near the headlight and came all the way back and across the dash - but it didn't do much more heating so I went back to the original round box. Not a good Canadian vehicle - esp. for window defrosting.

So the Quad 4 uses the same 6+1 trigger wheel setup from what I am reading. Does the wheel have magnets or any special properties to it or does it just have air gaps cut into the outer edge ? What is the alignment of the notches relative to TDC ?

Wheel does not have magnets. It is made of iron or steel (a magnet is attracted to it). Wheel has notches cut out of it, or it can be fabricated with STEEL pins protruding from it.

The sensor is a VR sensor (variable reluctance). It is composed of a permanent magnetized steel pin, with a coil winding around it. When metal is moved towards or away from the tip of the sensor, it generates a voltage. The gaps of the trigger wheel pass the tip of the sensor and produce voltage pulses that the DIS module can interpret.

The wheel has one "double notch" (hence the 6+1 or '7 notch' name) that must be oriented correctly for the engine to run. I'm not sure what position it has to be in because my engine has a different system and the crank trigger came with the engine already.

Did you look at the external trigger setup listed on WOT-TECH site? It will give an idea of what you will need. I bet there is some info on the www.60degreev6.com board that you can find about the 6+1 trigger wheel timing.

Thanks!
David

turbokinetic wrote:

QUOTE:

QUOTE:
Does a 90 degree V6 fire every 60 degrees of distributor rotation ? If it does couldn't you have just switched which coil was firing which plug to make up the 60 degrees of delay or am I missing something ? Maybe on a 3.1 60 degree V6 ?

Ok - All modern 4-stroke 6 cylinder engines fire once every 120 degrees of crank rotation. There are 3 sparks per crank rotation. This holds true for the 60° V6, the Buick 90° V6, and even the old Chevy inline 6.

'cept the Odd-fire v6.

Couple things that hit me, reading through this all.

First, are you editing the Min, Max, and Reference timing values using the XDF, or doing it manually in hex? If you're using an XDF, you'll likely need a later release file to make this work. The 1.3 doesn't have the correct ranges.

I'm in the process of trying to determine the exact effects of these timing parameters on actual spark, but my logic analyzer isn't up to the task, so it looks like I'll have to hunt down a 'scope.

Shannen's paper on this covers the general operation:
http://www.diy-efi.org/twiki/bin/view/Gmecm/DISdist

Here's a discussion a while back of 58/59 running on a GN, which should be the same ignition system as you have:
http://www.code59.org/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=38&func=view&id=4036&catid=12#4036

Hopefully that'll put you on the right track until I can get some real data from the actual DIS system.

turbodig wrote:

QUOTE:

First, are you editing the Min, Max, and Reference timing values using the XDF, or doing it manually in hex? If you're using an XDF, you'll likely need a later release file to make this work. The 1.3 doesn't have the correct ranges.

What should the ranges be for this in the XDF? I looked and the GM Document you gave me and everything looks correct in the 1.5 XDF I have in dev forum but you still get all of these whacky numbers in the reference angle. So it must be something I have wrong.. any ideas?

Dig; I edited it with the XDF, version 1.3.18 Did it using real time emulation until the engine ran right. The .bin I posted runs perfectly. I've driven the car on two 7 hours (Each way) road trips and got nothing but extreme and tire smoke from it!!!

With the EGR turned on it gets about 30 MPG (until I put foot in it!)

I know the timing is close because of the performance of the car, and the fact that it gets only a couple degrees KR under full boost.

Yes I've read Shannen's DIS to Dist article, but since the XDF showed the reference to already be at 0° other measures had to be taken to make it work.

I'll get the 1.5 XDF and see what things look like, though!

Thanks!
David

I'm having trouble navigating the new forum. Where can the 1.5 XDF be found?
Thanks,
David

turbokinetic wrote:

QUOTE:
I'm having trouble navigating the new forum. Where can the 1.5 XDF be found?
Thanks,
David

It hasn't been released yet.... I have a few issues in it to fix and then I will release it.....

turbodig wrote:

QUOTE:
.... If you're using an XDF, you'll likely need a later release file to make this work. The 1.3 doesn't have the correct ranges.
....

OK just looked at the XDF. The reference angle, and both of the bias values show to be 8 bit values, with a range of 0 to 255. How could this be given greater range?

Guess I may be misunderstood exactly what you meant by 'range' here?

Basically, I'm trying to understand this without getting further confused or confusing anyone else.

Thanks again for all the help, the car is running great.

Later,
David

Well looking at the code, KREFANGL is an 8 bit number. With the formula GM has in their document, that would give it a 0 - 90 degrees. I don't have the doc in front of me so I am not sure if it is a SIGNed number which would give it a range of -45 to 45 dregrees. I will look at it tonight when I get home.